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Prep Tips and Tricks >> Ford cars >> 03 & UP Vic Frame's
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03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Sanders07 on 09/21/2009 at 16:06:42
I was wanting to know if anyone knows where I can get a pic of the new frames would like to see the changes they made. And what all needs to be changed over just the A-arms and steering or to u need to change the cradle and everything. Thanks for the help
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by smitty37 on 09/21/2009 at 22:16:59
your 03's and up had the alum cradles i believe...
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Sanders07 on 09/22/2009 at 00:14:21
Ya thats what I heard wanting 2 know if it need changed out or if you could run it
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by SBB 09 on 09/22/2009 at 04:14:08
here u a pic of the a-arms
ps i we was gonna run it with it to test the water but decided were gonna go the right way and fix it all and test the frame the right way without anything breaking...
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by SBB 09 on 09/22/2009 at 04:19:19
Okay i did a alot of reserch due to me having one... where the cradle sits its 37inch to the outside to outside on the older ones are 38" please note this is where the cradle goes across in order to run one you need to switch the steering over the rack and opion isnt beefy if you wanna run the alum cradle well risky make you a custom mount that bolts to it need pics ask i'll send u some i would advise switching the cradle and the older a-arm setup plus you gotta move the watts link over another thing is the taxi cabs are 6inches longer in the middle.....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 09/22/2009 at 11:33:07
only info i have is the 02 taxis are 6 longer the middle, not sure if they did this on 03 and up.
i was unable to get enough info on this 03, but a box top fit on it just fine.
sorry no pics of the front end, as i have since sold this car..
be ready for some trial and error
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Sanders07 on 09/22/2009 at 16:14:47
Thanks for all the replys I think we need to start a theard for the 03's and up
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Sanders07 on 09/23/2009 at 04:29:58
You guys think you could take a older ford and cut it off in front & behind the A-arm and the narrow it a inch in the center of the cradle then take the 03 and newer frame and put it back together
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by wannabefastcrf on 09/23/2009 at 04:37:29
why not take an imp sub and put it under a 64 ford wagon. I heard its been done. If rules allow this cutting and splicing of frames anything is possible right?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 09/23/2009 at 14:58:52
on 09/23/2009 at 04:29:58, Sanders07 wrote: You guys think you could take a older ford and cut it off in front & behind the A-arm and the narrow it a inch in the center of the cradle then take the 03 and newer frame and put it back together
you wouldnt be gaining to much for the effort in work you might have involved.
keeo your car around, i'm sure in another year or sooner, there will plenty of pics and ways to do it.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 24forever on 09/23/2009 at 16:14:14
There is no testing them out that is already done here in Ontario the 03 and newers are already outlawed. They have been running them for a few years with a steal crossmember and old steering. The frontends are crazy tuff. A good night and ahalf will have it rolling .
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by TEAM117 on 09/23/2009 at 20:09:17
Well here in Ontario they aren't outlawed completely. We can still use them just not allowed to swap out cradles. Aall the aluminum stuff must stay stock. Seen a couple run with stock parts and so far none of the aluminum has broke. But it may only take one good shot to change all that. I personally wouldn't want to run one without changing it over to old stuff. Which is more work than I wanna do I will stick to the older bubbles.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by SBB 09 on 09/24/2009 at 04:12:07
i think just the steering and the a-arms need to be switched over.... thats my 2cents but im still gonna make a custom cradle setup depends where i wanna run it at....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by DannyM on 09/24/2009 at 20:35:58
any pics of these cars that were run in Canada and then caused them to be outlawed? were they set level or were they bent/tilted in the front with the rear low? I'm having trouble believing these cars are harder in the front than a 98-02 properly built, but I don't doubt you canadian's abilities to build hard cars, I've seen some wicked northern cars lately.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by SBB 09 on 09/25/2009 at 02:23:32
on 09/24/2009 at 20:35:58, DannyM wrote: any pics of these cars that were run in Canada and then caused them to be outlawed? were they set level or were they bent/tilted in the front with the rear low? I'm having trouble believing these cars are harder in the front than a 98-02 properly built, but I don't doubt you canadian's abilities to build hard cars, I've seen some wicked northern cars lately.
i dont think u can tilt a 03 lol there aint a box its like a gm with no frame seams.....im sure you can but why tho tahst the question i doubt it will be going up in the air like the older ones do
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Demoman240 on 09/25/2009 at 02:26:56
Here's a good pic I found of the whole front suspension.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Lincolnman on 09/25/2009 at 13:32:39
I wanted to get an '03 and up Towncar frame, but that may be a hard thing to get.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 09/25/2009 at 18:01:41
the 03's are in my opinion tougher than the 98-02.
they can be tipped, but not like the older models.
i too would like to see some after pics of some of these converted cars.
the one i built has not been ran yet, but i think when it pulls off the track, it may not be alllowed back, lol!!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Lincolnman on 09/25/2009 at 18:15:37
What about one in the Mayhem class.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by TEAMHILLMAN on 09/25/2009 at 20:56:40
these cars are awesome by far the hardest 80 and newer cars once you eliminate the aluminum and weld in an old style engine craddle. i live in ontario and these cars have been banned in most shows for that reason... i wouldnt be surprised if you see one or 2 at mayhem next year
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by kestes3k on 09/26/2009 at 12:21:33
Mayhem rules would not allow you to weld in a new engine cradle and you would also have to run with the Watts suspension. They still might be worth running but would not be nearly as dominate.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 24forever on 09/27/2009 at 09:32:29
What is wrong with the watts link? In a hour you can have 31 spline GM axles and a good gear in those 8.8 fords.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Demoman240 on 09/27/2009 at 10:43:03
on 09/27/2009 at 09:32:29, 24forever wrote: What is wrong with the watts link? In a hour you can have 31 spline GM axles and a good gear in those 8.8 fords.
The watts link arms are weak, make up some stronger arms and your fine.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BHayes on 09/27/2009 at 14:17:10
oh the wonders of hydroforming, can't believe 2003 + have been outlawed places already
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Derbyboy13 on 09/27/2009 at 22:41:59
I hope you get to run that think BIGSHOT.. I look at those frames about everyday.. and I really think it will be stronger than the 98-02, good luck
I would say you can tilt it just like 80's GM
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by JoshTag on 09/28/2009 at 14:48:35
lets see some full frame pics
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by DannyM on 10/05/2009 at 16:50:35
any pics yet I work on them everyday, and will still build the older ones as long as I can, But the "oval" frame rails do look tough. when one wins a northern ohio big money show, then I may change my tune.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by JoshTag on 10/06/2009 at 04:38:33
pics pics pics pics please
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Split Lip 97 on 10/06/2009 at 11:42:36
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by snakeman on 10/07/2009 at 02:48:13
nice !!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 5XBAG2WIN on 10/07/2009 at 13:10:15
for you guys that are running these what are you doing with the factory notches in the frame rails in front of a arms? my rules wouldnt allow me to put a plate over it
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 24forever on 10/08/2009 at 08:58:49
I will post pics in the next few days before I put the body on.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dan818 on 10/16/2009 at 10:18:10
any updates?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Sanders07 on 10/20/2009 at 20:34:52
anyone have any pics yet
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 10/20/2009 at 22:54:34
Here are some pics of an 07 cop car frame that 24forever and I built for the last derby of the year with old style suspension and steering parts, car has a stupid hard nose.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by wirsig00 on 10/20/2009 at 23:36:30
I would like to see some after pics of these cars that have been ran. and any info on where they are giving at frame wise. I have a couple that are not built yet but plan to. any info or pictures will help
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by moore8 on 10/21/2009 at 22:57:27
truck33.........which core support did you use with the old model body?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 10/22/2009 at 12:51:31
We used the square body one and cut it across below the head light pockets and then cut it in half to narrow it in and then overlaped it and welded it and then welded it back to where it was cut across below the head light pockets and filled in each gap with light steel at the end to where it goes to the fender and body mount holes line up except for the hole in the top of the core support that also has to be narrowed in. It took me an hour with a sawsall and a mig to do this.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by vrana124 on 10/22/2009 at 16:23:18
So where did it bend then
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Lincolnman on 10/22/2009 at 17:56:34
The derby looks like it is in ontario canada. Rockland?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 10/22/2009 at 20:51:34
It just started to come up at the dimple in the back and the 76 monte bumper ends bent around thats it and yes it was in rockland.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Brickwahl681 on 10/22/2009 at 23:05:57
no wonder those are so tough. Look how square and straight that sucker is from the a-arms forward.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by njw327 on 10/23/2009 at 01:40:31
Oh those frames look sweet! Would it be possible to see some after pics of that car? How was the back frame??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 10/23/2009 at 07:12:26
we were 2nd in the feature.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by jawcrash13 on 10/23/2009 at 09:05:58
Looks like it's coming up in the front a little. Still wants to bend at the box, or is it bending just in front of the box?
Josh
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Derbyboy13 on 10/23/2009 at 12:49:18
no, the last picture looks like its giving right in front of the A-Arm
cause if you look behind the front tire it don't look like its moved but its pointed up in front
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 10/23/2009 at 18:41:41
Its not giving anywhere we had it on the lift and cant find nothing other than both arms are layed over and its shoving the front end up. We had the nose pretty high to begin with because we new there was going to be alot of used cars at that derby we went to but for the next one we are going to drop it down, more fresh cars.
Jordan
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Beers187 on 10/27/2009 at 19:50:37
might be a stupid question but........two people posted some pics......why the square body?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Derbyboy13 on 10/27/2009 at 21:10:50
some people like the square front-end alot more.. they say its stronger
plus the metal in the 80's is better that the 90's... just like 70's metal is better than 80's
its all going to bend
plus i know guys that have 80's car but the frames are rusted so save the car and just find a frame
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 24forever on 10/28/2009 at 11:06:44
It s my car in the pics . I dont like the bubble bodies . Plus I got the 07 frames cheap with no bodies so had to use something.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Beers187 on 10/28/2009 at 11:16:18
there is pic of a maroon 4dr body sitting on a 03+ frame on here too.
Thought maybe there was something more too it.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dave86 on 10/28/2009 at 23:35:34
Those frames are sweet!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 10/29/2009 at 08:13:42
on 10/28/2009 at 11:16:18, Beers187 wrote: there is pic of a maroon 4dr body sitting on a 03+ frame on here too.
Thought maybe there was something more too it.
i like the box body's, and it keeps people from looking my car over to hard before the derby
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by brian86rdi on 11/01/2009 at 19:58:25
on 10/29/2009 at 08:13:42, BIGSHOT wrote: i like the box body's, and it keeps people from looking my car over to hard before the derby
Good technique, Bigshot, I like youre style!!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by DERBYDRIVER666 on 11/02/2009 at 09:12:18
imo the best 80s and up ford bodies are box and bubble lincolns, and if ur allowed to crease all u want ill take a bubble with a box front clip
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by allout on 11/06/2009 at 11:23:54
i have two 07 frames and my questions are: if you look at the front of the frame rails they have two or three dimple in front of the a-arms where the the frame is going to colapse if you get in a wreck. what are you doing to stop that?? and second how are you guys keeping the front springs and shocks in? i cant weld a plate on but i can cut any thing off any ford made car to make it. thanks for the help. adam
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 5XBAG2WIN on 11/06/2009 at 14:21:33
does the lower and upper control arm mount to the steel frame rails like a older ford or are they mounted to the alum. cradle??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by allout on 11/06/2009 at 16:25:02
they are mounted to the alum cradle
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 5XBAG2WIN on 11/06/2009 at 16:37:28
on 11/06/2009 at 16:25:02, allout wrote: they are mounted to the alum cradle
so knowing that you wouldnt be able to run the stock suspension with a new steel cradle
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BAD COMPANY 719 on 11/06/2009 at 23:21:27
i have a question whats the differance between an 01 and a 03 be sides the alum engine cradal
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BuzzKill_MotorSports on 11/07/2009 at 15:41:23
Go look at each one.....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BAD COMPANY 719 on 11/07/2009 at 15:58:59
thanks that helps alot
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Split Lip 97 on 11/07/2009 at 16:41:37
There is no real comparison between the two its a entirely different animal, so you really need to look at one.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by kestes3k on 11/07/2009 at 16:53:26
on 11/07/2009 at 15:58:59, Josh 23J wrote: thanks that helps alot
There are a lot of examples (read: PICTURES) showing each of these on this forum. Beside that we are talking about cars made in 2001 vs. 2003, they are not hard to find go to a car lot and look at them.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BAD COMPANY 719 on 11/07/2009 at 19:07:06
i will thanks guys
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by lewis21 on 11/08/2009 at 13:01:44
it sure would be interesting to get a hold of one of those. is there anything different about the rear of the frame?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BuzzKill_MotorSports on 11/08/2009 at 14:53:32
on 11/08/2009 at 13:01:44, lewis21 wrote: it sure would be interesting to get a hold of one of those. is there anything different about the rear of the frame?
Their watts set-ups just like the 98-02's....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 922yorker on 11/09/2009 at 11:17:48
on 10/20/2009 at 22:54:34, Truck333 wrote: Here are some pics of an 07 cop car frame that 24forever and I built for the last derby of the year with old style suspension and steering parts, car has a stupid hard nose.
so what did you do for springs? are they in there or did you weld the arms solid?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 11/09/2009 at 11:44:26
Who can tell me what the weak link is with the stock setup? Who has run one and what breaks first?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BuzzKill_MotorSports on 11/09/2009 at 12:25:51
Josh23J....Look at this pic and tell me what is different that you see.....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BAD COMPANY 719 on 11/09/2009 at 16:41:52
i see a lot diff. thanks 4 posting pics
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by MGM on 11/10/2009 at 20:13:55
so what did you do for springs? are they in there or did you weld the arms solid?
thats what i dont get ether any input thax mgm
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 16bw on 11/10/2009 at 22:45:40
I welded a piece of 3 inch schd 40 pipe about an inch long to the bottom of the rail and welded a big half inch chain to the frame and ran it down through the spring and used a stock shock mount and put it through the chain then bolted it into the stock position with abit of preload on it with a loader.
that is what he told me in a pmon 11/10/2009 at 20:13:55, MGM wrote: so what did you do for springs? are they in there or did you weld the arms solid?
thats what i dont get ether any input thax mgm
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Spylink21 on 11/11/2009 at 13:44:15
So i take it after looking at these you really don't need to bend the frames..such as in the past models..
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by njw327 on 11/11/2009 at 16:38:44
Im going too run one of these cars with the stock cradle and suspension. The derby is in jan I will post results
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Rehse17x on 11/11/2009 at 19:38:51
on 11/11/2009 at 16:38:44, njw327 wrote: Im going too run one of these cars with the stock cradle and suspension. The derby is in jan I will post results
you better get to movin on that thing.. its not gonna build itself!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 11/13/2009 at 09:48:44
07 spring shots. Does this answer any questions?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by DERBYDRIVER666 on 11/13/2009 at 13:37:40
If i decide to get one I am gonna do the same thing, see if its actually worth the work, on 11/11/2009 at 16:38:44, njw327 wrote: Im going too run one of these cars with the stock cradle and suspension. The derby is in jan I will post results
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Beers187 on 11/13/2009 at 14:18:42
on 11/13/2009 at 09:48:44, Truck333 wrote: 07 spring shots. Does this answer any questions?
While the free info is being put out there, how did the steering box workout without the bottom two bolts?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by mousepower on 11/13/2009 at 17:26:26
are those the stock springs and how freakin stiff did that end up?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by summers15jr on 11/17/2009 at 17:42:08
does some one have same pics of how they do the back of these frames? Like mounting a 9in rear or a 10bolt
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Hitparade on 11/17/2009 at 17:48:55
Look at the pics above your post. You can see an older style section welded in and a different rear being used.
on 11/17/2009 at 17:42:08, summers15jr wrote: does some one have same pics of how they do the back of these frames? Like mounting a 9in rear or a 10bolt
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by summers15jr on 11/17/2009 at 17:56:00
your right put i would like to see it form the rear its hard to see form the front thanks for the heads up!!on 11/17/2009 at 17:48:55, Hitparade wrote: Look at the pics above your post. You can see an older style section welded in and a different rear being used.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 11/17/2009 at 19:23:58
on 11/13/2009 at 14:18:42, Beers187 wrote: While the free info is being put out there, how did the steering box workout without the bottom two bolts?
This is in the early stages of the change over. We had three bolts in the box.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dbc757 on 11/18/2009 at 20:59:19
does anyone have one of these cars in or near ohio that they would like to sell or trade for steel cradle model car
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Thirty-Four on 11/18/2009 at 22:06:21
i have a few of them. what do you have for trade?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dbc757 on 11/19/2009 at 13:07:20
i have 90's bubble cars 90's lincolns square back chevy wagon ford wagon 85ish sedan a little of anything
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by summers15jr on 11/25/2009 at 23:26:54
Whats bolted around the rear end on this car in them pics ?on 11/13/2009 at 09:48:44, Truck333 wrote: 07 spring shots. Does this answer any questions?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Lincolnman on 11/26/2009 at 09:49:01
It is a rear end brace. You are only allowed to bolt them on and not weld at shows in Southern Ontario.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by summers15jr on 11/27/2009 at 00:37:10
Well thats no fun at all. Glad i live in good old WV haha
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 11/27/2009 at 21:36:58
That rearend brace weighs in at 79 pounds and thats steel on the outside of the housing.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by MGM on 11/30/2009 at 22:52:40
so what did u do with the core support
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 12/01/2009 at 11:47:27
on 10/22/2009 at 12:51:31, Truck333 wrote: We used the square body one and cut it across below the head light pockets and then cut it in half to narrow it in and then overlaped it and welded it and then welded it back to where it was cut across below the head light pockets and filled in each gap with light steel at the end to where it goes to the fender and body mount holes line up except for the hole in the top of the core support that also has to be narrowed in. It took me an hour with a sawsall and a mig to do this.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by D54 on 12/06/2009 at 20:06:04
This is what we at Derby Icons are allowing for the engine cradle conversions on the 2003 and up Crown Vic frames. These cars are a new idea for all of us in the sport. They have already proven to be a force... I know that this method seems restrictive, but letting the welding genie out of the bottle will wind up getting these cars banned by many promoters. We have to find a way to include them without creating a new Imperial in the 80 and newer class. We will watch these cars closely as they develop and try to stay on the cutting edge without throwing the rules out the window. This conversion IS possible... it IS competitive and it is fairly easy to accomplish. With that said, here is what you can do...
You may use a gm or older ford cradle.
The trailing legs leading to the cowl feet area on the older Ford cradles must be removed.
You are allowed 12" of weld per side.. top or bottom, not both... NO ADDED METAL
THIS IS THE ONLY WELDING ALLOWED IN THIS CONVERSION
All other components must be bolted in place with brackets. The brackets may be no larger than 2"x 2"x1/4".. 2 bolts per bracket no larger than 3/8".. no more than 2 brackets per component.
All components must be in a stock location.. That is, a location that centers the wheel in the wheel well opening.
No repainting or undercoating allowed
Anything beyond this method will not be allowed to run
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/06/2009 at 21:08:32
Did a post asking about icon rules get deleted or something?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by 2G on 12/07/2009 at 16:30:35
on 12/06/2009 at 21:08:32, liv2demo wrote: Did a post asking about icon rules get deleted or something?
no. a lot of people that r on this thread reading about these cars are asking about what will be allowed for Spring Explosion and MM. Just thought it would be a good idea to post them here.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/07/2009 at 17:09:46
disappearing post and then they pop back up with other post gone, Whats going on with that? this dont make the sight look good........
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 12/08/2009 at 08:51:02
on 11/17/2009 at 17:42:08, summers15jr wrote: does some one have same pics of how they do the back of these frames? Like mounting a 9in rear or a 10bolt
all i have are the lower trailing arm pics right now.
i just cut the mounts off an older frame along with the package tray. trimmed them up a lil and set it in there and welded away.
ready for 10 bolt gm or fabbed up 9in or 8 3/4. set up for coils.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dieselram35 on 12/08/2009 at 12:12:26
I have yet to see any of these cars run, but have access to 4 or 5 of them.....so my question is...are the aluminum cradles really that weak? I mean they are set up to take quite a bit of abuse, I just wonder if everyone is switching them because they have had bad luck or they think just cuz they are aluminum they will break?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by daSimzy06 on 12/08/2009 at 12:14:48
Honestly, I think the word aluminum is scaring people away, and nobody wants to be the guinea pig. I also understand that the suspension, which is attached to the cradle looks a little weak.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by ttracing17 on 12/08/2009 at 12:16:05
i was wondering if you could still use the 3 core stock rads or do u need a custom 4 core alum rad to fit
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dieselram35 on 12/08/2009 at 12:24:12
Now I know we are talkin about derby cars, but that aluminum cradle was built to see a lot of abuse, especially in a cop car setting, thats why I wondered if you just swapped out the joints for some big nasty bolts, if the cradle could handle any kind of a beating
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by summers15jr on 12/08/2009 at 14:10:39
Hey thanks for the pics that helps a lot if you get same form be hand the rear end would be great thanks again!!on 12/08/2009 at 08:51:02, BIGSHOT wrote: all i have are the lower trailing arm pics right now.
i just cut the mounts off an older frame along with the package tray. trimmed them up a lil and set it in there and welded away.
ready for 10 bolt gm or fabbed up 9in or 8 3/4. set up for coils.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BSR #D54 on 12/08/2009 at 21:34:17
if i had one id run it with the aluminum cradle just to see what would happen
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BLITZ ! on 12/09/2009 at 15:35:15
EVERYBODY is overlooking a real way to make one of these an absolute worldbeater. You just gotta think past the typical mindset and incorporate a few of the estabished tricks into it.
I have the plans drawn up for everything it takes. AND I dont think that any of the major promotors rules are specifically in opposition to it. It follows the letter, if not the spirit. However I doubt that theres even a handful of builders who would do it though since it takes them out of their comfort zone.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/09/2009 at 16:14:17
Im going to guess that you are talking about putting a straight axle with leafs under the front of it. We have talked about it but figured that even tho the rules dont say you cant that no promoters would allow it
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BLITZ ! on 12/09/2009 at 17:10:03
nope. although I did have a 75 buick once with a straight axle under the front of it. just couldnt find a bearing set to put a 5 lug rotor onto a 1 ton axle
heres a hint- what is the big trick item everybody has started using in the last 2 years?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/09/2009 at 17:23:55
well Im not sure where you are from but what was a "new" trick 2 years ago for your area might not even be used here. (Indiana) You have me thinking tho.
perhaps hydro steering?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BLITZ ! on 12/09/2009 at 17:28:53
What derby related product has been used in the last 2 years more and more until they are very commonplace now? If overbuilt, it reinforces a car tremendously?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/09/2009 at 17:33:02
d protector and craddles? Im just guessing now......
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Split Lip 97 on 12/09/2009 at 17:51:43
Front plate and Mid plate....throw then entire cradle in the garbage...coming to a show near you
BRP Mega Ginormous '03+ Extreme Set-up
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/09/2009 at 18:05:15
that still dont solve the issue with the suspension, If Im not mistaken they have rack and pinion steering also,
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by MGM on 12/09/2009 at 19:19:25
if u dont have open rules u cant run these cars so im going back to 02 s later mgm
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by brian86rdi on 12/09/2009 at 20:42:13
on 12/09/2009 at 19:19:25, MGM wrote: if u dont have open rules u cant run these cars so im going back to 02 s later mgm
Gebro, dont rule them out yet!!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/10/2009 at 04:50:25
on 12/09/2009 at 21:09:25, Psychojimmy wrote: theres 2 of these getting built (one in nebraska one in indiana) that are single handedly going to make promotors not take for granted that 'people are just using box ford engine cradles' to fix the aluminum problem and completely re write the rule book for 03' ups in 2011
Can't wait to see it Jimmy
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by D54 on 12/10/2009 at 10:45:27
on 12/09/2009 at 19:19:25, MGM wrote: if u dont have open rules u cant run these cars so im going back to 02 s later mgm
open rules=no rules=cheated cars=lower car counts=fewer fans=no derbies.. This is a well proven formula.
LOTS of other cars to run....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by r23 on 12/10/2009 at 11:14:25
on 12/10/2009 at 10:45:27, D54 wrote: open rules=no rules=cheated cars=lower car counts=fewer fans=no derbies.. This is a well proven formula.
LOTS of other cars to run....
Good point Dave. And you said math wasn't your strong suite. LOL
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by rescue1 on 12/10/2009 at 11:20:09
on 12/09/2009 at 21:09:25, Psychojimmy wrote: theres 2 of these getting built (one in nebraska one in indiana) that are single handedly going to make promotors not take for granted that 'people are just using box ford engine cradles' to fix the aluminum problem and completely re write the rule book for 03' ups in 2011
for what show?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 12/10/2009 at 12:51:35
on 12/08/2009 at 12:24:12, dieselram35 wrote: Now I know we are talkin about derby cars, but that aluminum cradle was built to see a lot of abuse, especially in a cop car setting, thats why I wondered if you just swapped out the joints for some big nasty bolts, if the cradle could handle any kind of a beating
we are buying the cop cars that have the cradles busted out of them.
either they bottom out on a curb, or take a front end hit knocking out headlight and busting the upper ball joint.
if you run the aluminum cradle you either need to have alumninum welding skills (mine are bad) or bolt in motor mounts.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by BIGSHOT on 12/10/2009 at 12:56:54
on 12/09/2009 at 21:09:25, Psychojimmy wrote: theres 2 of these getting built (one in nebraska one in indiana) that are single handedly going to make promotors not take for granted that 'people are just using box ford engine cradles' to fix the aluminum problem and completely re write the rule book for 03' ups in 2011
your right jimmy, i have one floating around thats ready for next spring, i assured the owner that if it runs once, i would bet they would right new rules to keep it from coming back.
the ironic part is it's built to the critera of icon rules, but i'm sure dave and the boys would need some time to think it over
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by kennyz56 on 12/12/2009 at 02:44:24
Iv never had anything newer then 95! I have a 99 on the way! What seperates the 98-02 from 03+ other then alum cradle??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by x909x on 12/12/2009 at 05:06:28
The 03 and newers are a totally different frame from the 98-02 frame from the trans crossmember forward. Behind the trans crossmember the only difference I have found is extra shock brackets on the outsides of the humps. The 98-02 front frame is similar to the 90-97 from the firewall forward just a little straighter and a-arms forward is taller.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Hollywood on 12/12/2009 at 11:41:01
on 12/10/2009 at 10:45:27, D54 wrote: open rules=no rules=cheated cars=lower car counts=fewer fans=no derbies.. This is a well proven formula.
LOTS of other cars to run....
isnt that the truth
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by crash4fun on 12/12/2009 at 15:37:03
You can run these cars..it;s been proven..and yes they were stock
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by DANO33X on 12/12/2009 at 21:43:25
on 12/10/2009 at 10:45:27, D54 wrote: open rules=no rules=cheated cars=lower car counts=fewer fans=no derbies.. This is a well proven formula.
LOTS of other cars to run....
I'm with you on this dave but aren't they already too open I mean putting a whole new cradle on a frame that's already asking for trouble but hey if you can do it why not then
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by sanford17 on 12/13/2009 at 00:32:38
Here is the bottom line if the 03 and up can add about lets say 4 sqft of soild metal let the older Vics add that and see what happens. JMO
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by liv2demo on 12/13/2009 at 11:35:32
^^^thats what gets me, most rules allow you to do all kinds of work to the fords to make them able to run but your arent alloud to plate the humps on a gm to make them any better.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by jerm80 on 12/13/2009 at 11:56:46
i say u shouldnt be able to rework the whole front of the cars
most rules say no welding but patches in bent spots, humpplates, and welding your bumpers on oh and tilting
but on these frame u have to weld in new cradles and front suspensions parts
i say run the alummuin cradles and front suspensions parts or run a older car
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dan818 on 12/13/2009 at 13:21:30
I'm shure these cars will be out in full force this spring at bellefountaine In fact i will bet on at least 4 of them being there
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/13/2009 at 20:04:05
on 12/13/2009 at 11:56:46, jerm80 wrote: i say u shouldnt be able to rework the whole front of the cars
most rules say no welding but patches in bent spots, humpplates, and welding your bumpers on oh and tilting
but on these frame u have to weld in new cradles and front suspensions parts
i say run the alummuin cradles and front suspensions parts or run a older car
I agree
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by livetohit76 on 12/14/2009 at 16:36:09
so your saying that you shouldnt be allowed a-arm swaps or steering box swaps on the older models?
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by jerm80 on 12/14/2009 at 18:08:04
no im saying that u shouldnt be able to change the cradle, front suspensions,and that wyatt rearend for the car to be able run to make it strong
if this is the case why not just take the stongest part of every car ever made and combine the strong parts to make one car just because
u cant plug holes in the frame because they r the weak link right
can u put a ford rear on a gm car just becuase the rear of 80s gms r their weak point
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by livetohit76 on 12/14/2009 at 20:27:52
i c what you mean but it still makes no sence....why put a 9 inch under a gm, why run a chevy motor in a ford......and the fuss over a motor crossmember....it was no big deal when ppl put 70's gm suspension parts on fords....
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/14/2009 at 21:12:16
on 12/14/2009 at 20:27:52, livetohit76 wrote: i c what you mean but it still makes no sence....why put a 9 inch under a gm, why run a chevy motor in a ford......and the fuss over a motor crossmember....it was no big deal when ppl put 70's gm suspension parts on fords....
It's not just a motor crossmember, it's the entire front suspension, engine crossmember and steering that's being changed.
All of that other stuff is basically bolt on stuff. You can change a rearend or put a chevy motor in a ford or swap a-arms out on a car without welding on the frame. welding in a different engine cradle/suspension/steering setup is a completly different type of modification. If you are going to allow that, you should allow swapping front clips on any cars with the suspension of your choice. Then if you are gonna change the frontend, what's the difference in just leafing everything, heck you changed the whole front setup, these are just springs (snowball grows larger). I just think it is excessive. There has to be limits somewhere.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by davis15 on 12/15/2009 at 08:13:06
It's not just a motor crossmember, it's the entire front suspension, engine crossmember and steering that's being changed.
All of that other stuff is basically bolt on stuff. You can change a rearend or put a chevy motor in a ford or swap a-arms out on a car without welding on the frame. welding in a different engine cradle/suspension/steering setup is a completly different type of modification. If you are going to allow that, you should allow swapping front clips on any cars with the suspension of your choice. Then if you are gonna change the frontend, what's the difference in just leafing everything, heck you changed the whole front setup, these are just springs (snowball grows larger). I just think it is excessive. There has to be limits somewhere.
Most of these parts are already being swapped as it is, the only difference is thew engine cradle. Most guys are already changing the A-arms, springs, upgrading tie rods, using GM gear boxes, etc so the conversion on the 03 and up isnt that much different. As long as a a stock engine cradle is used what is the harm??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by davis15 on 12/15/2009 at 08:19:05
It seems like a lot of guys are afraid of change. Changing an engine cradle isn't stock, BUT, Nothing on these cars are stock. Were changing EVERYTHING on these cars. We change everything from engines and rearends down to the body bolts and gas pedals, lol. One person said all these swaps were ok because they were "bolt-on". well the 03 cradles are bolt on as well. So does that mean if a guy develops a cradle that bolts on it would be ok??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by livetohit76 on 12/15/2009 at 12:33:08
kinda what i was saying i mean it sounds like the ones against are the ones that dont have them or dont want to take the time
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by davis15 on 12/15/2009 at 16:56:26
Exactly! I was thinkin the same thing. If people think its too much work then they dont need to build one. So much crying goin on anymore. as long as its built to the rules why complain??
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by mark14v on 12/15/2009 at 17:17:48
These are the only full-framed cars made today. GM's stopped after '96. Kind of running out of options with newer cars. Imagine what people will be doing to these cars in 20 years.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/15/2009 at 18:24:08
on 12/15/2009 at 12:33:08, livetohit76 wrote: kinda what i was saying i mean it sounds like the ones against are the ones that dont have them or dont want to take the time
Ha ha, really? Look, this is a forum to discuss things, correct? I gave my opinion on this particular rule. You disagree, that's fine. Much can be learned by listening to differing viewpoints, I try to do so with an open mind. I explained why I am opposed to this rule. You seem to feel the need to explain why my opposition to this differs from what I have already said. I will tell you this, you don't know what I have or don't have, you don't know how much time I am willing to invest in a build. If I feel this is what it takes to compete, I will build it if that's what the rules allow. That doesn't change the fact that I disapprove of allowing this modification.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/15/2009 at 18:34:30
on 12/15/2009 at 16:56:26, davis15 wrote: Exactly! I was thinkin the same thing. If people think its too much work then they dont need to build one. So much crying goin on anymore. as long as its built to the rules why complain??
Dude, chill out. Who's crying or complaining. Noone ever said it's too much work. Who complained about something that was built to the rules? I simply stated why I opposed allowing this modification. I thought this was a forum where we could discuss differing viewpoints? It is possible that being a little more open minded and listening to other's views without accusation of crying/complaining will make for more civil conversations with your peers.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by livetohit76 on 12/15/2009 at 18:39:13
i wasnt trying to single you out, or say what you did or didnt have....i just find it funny on here how alot of ppl seem to have opinions on things (such as the 03) and im not totally sure that they have even seen one before....and like stated before if a rule change is in order, how or where would one drawl the line.....im worried that most will get them banned before they even come full swing just becouse they are different
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by seven1seven on 12/15/2009 at 18:44:41
well said^^^
these cars will be the imperials of today soon!!!
so basically what has been said is that these cars take a lot of work--- so do roundbacks!!
is there a need for all the work to be done? that is a ? that will never be answered
now if rules allow a cradle swap then why cant i put a imperial clip in these cars and compete
heck that is how hard these cars are with the cradle welded in
not to mention there is not a place for the springs so that is more welding other than the cradle
now who is to say that since certain people have figured out that with a dist prot fords bend in front of the a-arms or in the SPRING BUCKET!! These certain people could be doing way more to the frame behind the welded in cradle
i mean a guy could plate the frame where the cradle goes/ stuff the frame by cutting a hole behind where the cradle will sit etc then weld the cradle back in and not get caught
i think some one stated the width diff of the front rails where the cradle goes between the older fords and the 03 and up
ITS JUST OPENING A CAN OF WORMS THAT NOBODY WILL EAT
STD PROMOTIONS WILL SEE THIS HAPPEN AT MM THIS YEAR!!!
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/15/2009 at 18:55:36
on 12/15/2009 at 18:39:13, livetohit76 wrote: i wasnt trying to single you out, or say what you did or didnt have....i just find it funny on here how alot of ppl seem to have opinions on things (such as the 03) and im not totally sure that they have even seen one before....and like stated before if a rule change is in order, how or where would one drawl the line.....im worried that most will get them banned before they even come full swing just becouse they are different
I agree with you, the question is where do you draw the line? I am also concerned of these cars getting banned early on. I've already heard that has happened in Canada? Where our views differ here is that I am concerned that with the welded cradles, these cars are so hard that they will become the new imperial.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 12/15/2009 at 20:47:50
The aluminum engine cradles can take the punishment I live in ontario canada and I built the car in the pics at the start of this thread. I watched 3 of these cars finish in the top 10 out of 75 cars at the biggest demo in canada with the stock aluminum cradles as the rules stated. We welded in the crossmember in this car because we were running with a different promotor and it was allowed and his theory was if your replacing ford parts with ford parts he didnt care. And yes these are going to be the new imperial with or without the stock cradle.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by junior16 on 12/16/2009 at 12:23:25
ive been watching this thread since it started very nice fab work but to bad you let your secret out, you should have kept it 2 urself, don't no y people want to let out secrets on cars on here, then the promotors see it and ban it, or your competition sees it. when you could have had the edge! thats what is fun about building tha cars doing somthing within the rules but giving u the upper hand over someone else I think what you have done is not cheating and should be allowed but now that everyone nows it is and prolly has caused alot of problems.
jmo
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dan818 on 12/16/2009 at 14:00:28
these cars are going to be seen for the first time by a lot of people at the spring bellefountaine show.
that is where everyone will learn if these cars live up to the hype
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by D54 on 12/16/2009 at 14:18:43
ITS JUST OPENING A CAN OF WORMS THAT NOBODY WILL EAT
DERBY ICONS PROMOTIONS WILL SEE THIS HAPPEN AT MM THIS YEAR!!!
You might be surprised... I think we are ready for the challenge. Our rules are pretty clear...
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by seven1seven on 12/16/2009 at 14:24:00
dave i agree your rules are very clear but...
when one of these cars wins the mayhem class all heck will break loose!!--- i hope for your sake that this doesnt happen but its a very good possibilty
i mean look at what the creasing of the qtr panels has turned into--- banned at mm---
GOOD LUCK AND SEE YA AT MM
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by Truck333 on 12/16/2009 at 15:43:10
First off I live in CANADA and the rules on these cars have been established for some time now and there are drivers up here that have been changing the cradles in these cars for the last 5 years so im not letting out any secrets. I thought I was just lending out information to drivers that live 15 hours away that I will never run against and I thought thats why threads got started. People seeking knowledge...
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by bdavis441 on 12/16/2009 at 16:04:00
Truck333, thanks for posting your experience with these cars.
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Re: 03 & UP Vic Frame's
Post by dan818 on 12/16/2009 at 18:52:59
yes thank you for your info truck333
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