LS ENGINES

[rpmw]

We need to start posting from the other site to here all the good info on these engines.

[rpmw]

RANDOM STUFF I COPIED.

Ls tips from wecrash:
Tips when tuning and running LS engines with a carb.

1. NO PLATINUM SPARK PLUGS, if you dont heed this warning your find out the hard way. Those plugs dont do well with the terrible fuel air mixes you throw at them.
2. Do spend time on initial start adjusting the idle mix screws, they are 20x more sensitive than small blocks especially with a 4bbl. it usually takes me 20 mins to tune mine right or you get terrible idle quailty.
3. Let them some time to get used to the ign box. It will run bad at first but after a few mins it ill learn a lot about the engine.
4. remove the thermostat and make sure you install a block off plate inside between the incomming and outgoing water passages. Not doing this will not circulate water but just run it in a circle and not push anything into the block or the radiator.
5. Make a custom lower water neck, the one that returns the water into the radiator. the angles are terrible to package up.
6. Make sure you always keep spare MAP sensors with you. If you run into bad idle problems, its usually cause you had a backfire and killed the MAP sensor and thinks your at 1/2 throttle and throws the timing to it and runs bad. They are cheap and usually get them off junk yard motors. With the programable stuff where you can see the live data make sure you bring your labtop along and if it runs rough go in and look at the live data on the MAP and if its stuck at 15v its usually been backfired and now junk. When this happens it runs fine just idles bad. Wont take you out of a derby but something youll have to deal with.
7. 15-50 Mobil 1 synthetic oil only, if not you'll find out on your own especially if you have a higher mileage motor.
8. When using DEC headers make sure you get the round coil set up, not the square ones. Again, if not youll findout the hard way.
9. tap and pipe plug the heater core outlet and inlets. If not use one as your engine temp. the holes are already drilled to size, just tap them.
10. 6.0's run great with a LS1 cam and LS1 heads.
11. Only use 93 octane, even with the stock stuff, again if you dont you find out why i tell you so.
12. the 4 corner water plugs need just that, plugged off. Find them on other core engines. most have them in the back and the tube for the throttle body which play no role in cooling so save the time and remember you are no engineer thinking your coming up with a solution to better cooling.
13. Have been having problems with the intake gaskets. They are ripping and sucking them in. I noticed the idle kept getting higher and higher ithout adjustment. With brake clean i sprayed very close to the gasket area and found the gaskets sucked in in a few places. They are replaced with 2000 Corvette intake gaskets. These still did not fix the problem. I then just resorted to the Felpro conventional paper ones and the problem is gone. No o-ring style gaskets or youll be sorry. Melted pistons 2 times now.
14. Buy the $40 converter adapter for the crankshaft, slot the holes in the flexplate for the converter for $0 and hold that b!tch to the floor till the bottom blows out of it!



2 different coil sets. Round and square. Find the early model round ones. Best for header clearance. If you use the square ones you'll be sorry


i agree. it really does not matter the combinations, you wont loose. From stock to built they are great derby engines. The hot cam really does not trip my trigger but i am a low duration guy and wish there were more split duration cams out there on a 108. that would be perfect. but ill settle for stock.


I've since changed to a custom cam on a 110lsa on a 108 icl mid 220's/low 230's i/e durations. Much healthier now. If you're going to go with stock cathedral port heads vs rectangular heads, you need to keep a 4-6 degree duration split.


The 6.0 H.O. or the 00 LS1 cam is 10x better.


Been getting a million questions about the programable boxes and where to put the timing curve at. YOU MUST PROGRAM THE BOX BEFORE YOU RACE IT OR IT WILL RUN LIKE shoot AND MOST LIKELY BURN UP A PISTON. The factry settings are about 50 degrees @ 2000 and run like heck. I've done it, i know. Click and drag in the graph when you save a file for your car. Then send to car. Make the graph look like this. Stop it at about 33 degrees. They will take more but stock stuff has no gain above this point. They just dont like the timing.



since that graph is so bad, ill spell it out


0 0
1000 16
2000 24
3000 30
4000 33
5000 33
6000 33
7000 33
8000 33

Its not a linear deal, you can have more timing sooner at the bottom due to excess fuel from acc pumps and power valves.


No, E15 110 octane only.
alright ladies, this is what i came up with for responses to emails. They all use a factory aluminum or steel LS1 flywheel which you need to find on your own. Since we run their decal on our car they said I can let you use the discount code. The code is 1DEAL10. Those are the prices after the discount. Owner also said he'll give us another 10% off which is not figured into the prices below. Any questions and issues need to go through their motorsports rep. Rick Cole. 216-688-8300. Now listen to me, if you just call up and ask for your own sh!t your way cause your a dummy you may loose out on the discounts. I suggest you email Rick and use him or atleast call and ask for him.

Rick Cole 216-688-8300 email [e-mail]

Hayes and Lakewood components


Saginaw 10.4” 1-1/8 10 spline Clutch 40-111 Plate 33-610 Bearing 70-101

M22 or T10 11” 1-1/8 26 spline Clutch 40-221-Plate 34-618 Bearing 70-101

Muncie 11” 1-1/8 10 spline Clutch 40-212 Plate 34-618 Bearing 70-101

Bronze Lakewood 15976 or Roller Lakewood 15977 Pilot bushings


40-111 Clutch 158.95
33-610 Plate 326.95
70-101 Bearing 63.95

40-221 Clutch 158.95
34-618 Plate 36.95
70-101 Bearing 63.95

40-212 Clutch 158.95
34-618 Plate 326.95
70-101 Bearing 63.95

15976 17.95
15977 37.95


I think I just got a hold of a batch of unused LS3 camshafts, they will be 204/211@.050 and have a .551 I .522E lift, cams will be perfect for derby use and will make great power and torque, unlike the ones of ebay, we know exactly what these are and were they came from so there is no questions on them, not sure how many we will be getting in yet but we will have that info soon, they will sell for around 160.00, under half the cost of a custom roller


The Edelbrock 7118 kit appears to be $669 on Jegs and summit


i run the most timing i can get, the beauty of these set ups is it starts at 0 degrees and at 2500 it max timing. you cant get that out of a SBC. I have had no sensor issues yet. The map sensors are pretty durable unless you get a hard pow out of the carb then it can blow the diapram. i have only expirenced that in my 24 hr road race car, never in a derby car so dont jump out the window. Even if it blows it out it defaults to a mild timing curve and gets you through to the end. I did not even know it happened till the race was over. It will run with it unplugged too. Its what tells the computer where your throttle position is at. max vacuume=idle zero vacuume=WFO! it takes awhile for the ecm to learn this initially.


TR5 2238 NGK V-POWER
gaskets is 12533587

[61j]

MG]http://i39.tinypic.com/newccj.jpg[/IMG]

[scottgropp]

I will throw this out here on wesmash.com only, because I won't argue about it or answer questions as to why I have this opinion. This site seems to have less people who want to fight me all of the time. Plus, in explaining why "not" LS stuff at G.A.S., I'd have to let you know what really happens in a winning engine - and I'm not here to do that.

I post this only so beginners who feel they are missing out on the latest trends or folks on a budget don't bail from the sport because they think they will be behind if they don't join the latest fad. Maybe my position on LS stuff will make you feel better about sticking with the good old SBC.

G.A.S. will not build LS engines for derby use. There is zero reason to go to this type of engine if you know how to build winning SBC engines. In the mid-2000's I did a fair amount of study of these engines, and unless there are some significant aftermarket offerings in the next 5 years, these engines will be a headache for those who want to win and win consistently. If the sport treats these engines like the newer Fords, where there are significant allowances made to favor them, then there is hope. But otherwise, we will not build any in the foreseeable future.

[auctioneerhere]

Apr 19, 2012 10:15:49 GMT -5 scottgropp said:

I will throw this out here on wesmash.com only, because I won't argue about it or answer questions as to why I have this opinion. This site seems to have less people who want to fight me all of the time. Plus, in explaining why "not" LS stuff at G.A.S., I'd have to let you know what really happens in a winning engine - and I'm not here to do that.

I post this only so beginners who feel they are missing out on the latest trends or folks on a budget don't bail from the sport because they think they will be behind if they don't join the latest fad. Maybe my position on LS stuff will make you feel better about sticking with the good old SBC.

G.A.S. will not build LS engines for derby use. There is zero reason to go to this type of engine if you know how to build winning SBC engines. In the mid-2000's I did a fair amount of study of these engines, and unless there are some significant aftermarket offerings in the next 5 years, these engines will be a headache for those who want to win and win consistently. If the sport treats these engines like the newer Fords, where there are significant allowances made to favor them, then there is hope. But otherwise, we will not build any in the foreseeable future.

LS can be a cheap powerhouse that will work well for many a county fair.

I agree there is nothing wrong with the old 350 as we know it.

Time will tell on the LS engines in the Derby world.

[dirtworker]

I can't see the gains being worth all of the extra headaches. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[61j]

If anyone is interested I do make the power steering adapter steering pump adapter. Pm me

[61j]

[61j]

Scott not try to argue with you bout who's make member is bigger or better but have you done all the same R&D to the LS that you did to the good old reliable SBC to come to the conclusion that they are not a good viable engine to use? Have you applied the same building techniques to an Ls as the Sbc? Lastly have you put both motors on a dyno with no water and on a mild pull to come to the conclusion you have? I have been around your motors so I know what you do does work and this is my first Ls build so it could bout me in the A**.

[61j]

Apr 19, 2012 19:57:00 GMT -5 dirtworker said:

I can't see the gains being worth all of the extra headaches. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

The drive shaft was never broke it just needed improved same with the engine it to was never broke just needed improved. Somebody has to experiment with these engines street rod guys are so why not derby guys a well.

[scottgropp]

Apr 20, 2012 19:45:37 GMT -5 61j said:

Scott not try to argue with you bout who's make member is bigger or better but have you done all the same R&D to the LS that you did to the good old reliable SBC to come to the conclusion that they are not a good viable engine to use? Have you applied the same building techniques to an Ls as the Sbc? Lastly have you put both motors on a dyno with no water and on a mild pull to come to the conclusion you have? I have been around your motors so I know what you do does work and this is my first Ls build so it could bout me in the A**.

I don't hide anything when it comes to my experience. Never rebuilt one, never dyno'd one, never put two side by side and tested them. My success is based on an understanding of what has to be done with regard to engine systems - I needed to study many things about them, but after doing that, and hitting the salvage yards to look some over, I came to the conclusion they were not going to beat my SBC combos. There has been 7 years of development of them in the industry since I first studied them, and so far nothing from the aftermarket really benefits us in the derby world. If I had a street rod, I'd give them a shot and I know I would like them.

One point I would make about the derby hype of the internet. GM performance parts has a LS327/327 Crate 5.3. It uses a hotter cam setup than a 5.3 out of a pickup (which most guys are using for derby cars) and only puts out 327 horse with stock induction. Add a Holley carb, according to GM, and get it to 350 horse. The way guys talk about the stock 5.3 engines they are putting in their derby cars, you'd think every one of them makes 500 horse. Look at the reality, and think about what is making these seem like a "big deal". Quite a bit of hype with not much facts. 350 is a breeze to make with a SBC also.